| wco |
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| #1 |
my third breeding season is is may. i was wondering if someone can explain the term and "vigor" as it applies to
1) X breding ( F1 with another breed ie, simmi )
2) out crossing with another "line" of angus
i am pretty sure that most of my herd will me xbred ( Maine and Simmi ) on my pb's. although i will continue with at least one pb progeny
X breeding i can "kinda see" how vigor would be introdued
outcrossing on the other hand, i cant recogonize where or when the "vigor" should be applied, and outcrossing is necessary.
thanks for any info, and thanks for the invite from sp. |
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| admin |
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| #2 |
Thanks for asking, that is what we are here for! I think you are thinking on the right path when you talk about vigor. All it really means is that by crossing breeds you increase the gene pool and increase the amount of "good points" of both or all breeds involved.
The same thing applies within a breed. The wider the gene pool the better it is as you can see from the widespread use of the precision bull from Gardiner's and the effect it has had on the breed in the U.S.
Just my opinion, anyone else have something to add? |
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| cattledog |
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| #3 |
I think the F1 heterosis speaks for itself. Outcross heterosis occurs when a completely new bloodline is introduced. Here in the US it seems like all of the main breeding bulls have a common ancestor of some sort. Whether the ancestor is far back in pedigree linebreeding is still occuring. A side effect of linebreeding is lower performance.
Now with that said if you take your somewhat linebred animal and breed it to an animal of completely foreign genetics you will get a heterosis burst. Does that make sense? |
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| wco |
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| #4 |
cattledog, that clears it up nicely, thanks. i can see now that for sure the F1 crosses is what i need. i guess it would be safe to say that an outcross would have more of a place in a more established, long running pb operation. i am however going to pick one of my pb's and bred her back to a pb. can anyone suggest a popular outcross to a GAR based ( tc total) cow? thanks again all. |
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| StraightCdn |
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| #5 |
I am not sure the comment that the wider the gene base the better, I would like you to explain that in regards to consistency?
Anyone who has worked with genetics/breeding knows the tighter the genetics, the more consistent they will be. Wheat, grass, you name it that's the way it is.
Now, if you're afraid of problems and what might be in the genepool you might take this route. From what I gather from producers I talk to, consistency is the issue. No need to be afraid of breeding tight, at least you know what the problems are? |
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| admin |
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| #6 |
You make a good point straightcdn, I was just trying to make my point of distinguishing between crossbred and outcross.
WELCOME TO ANGUS TALK! |
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| wco |
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| #7 |
thanks to both of you, each with the other actually answered what i was trying to undersatnd. i have a releatively new herd (7), and will probally F1 most of them this season ( maine/simmi). but i do also believe that i may pick my best angus cow, and concentrate on one at a time rather than a "herd project", for the time being. thanks to you both. |
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| straightcdn |
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| #8 |
You're partly right, but you also insinuated that by not outcrossing the Angus breed got into trouble and used 1680 as an example.
Hopefully most posters show up. |
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| straightcdn |
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| #9 |
Hopefully more posters show up here. |
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| KJD |
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| #10 |
Some of this post may fit here, but some of you may not feel it fits at all.
We run a small group of pbs and crossbreds. With the purebreds we try to use the best that's out there, but with such a small herd, we don't gamble, we go with what is proven or at least try to.
Our crossbreds are a different story, we only started using steer bulls a few years ago as a way to expand what we could sell outside of what goes to a feedlot. We can move these calves a lot quicker and can get close to what a finished steer goes for these calves at 7-10 months of age. The sires that are used in the steer bulls are mostly crossbreds, 3 way or more. We have found that using purebred bulls on our crossbred females gives us much more consistent calves in terms of getting what you expect. We have found that the more mixed up a cow is, the more likely we will come back on her with a purebred bull, mostly Angus or Maine Anjou.
The Precision issue is no different than TH or PHA other than there really is no one to try and get rid of these carriers in the steer business. Probably 75% or better of the top bulls are carriers of TH. It is easy to beat it, just breed around it when needed.
Also, of interest, Igenity has a DNA test for Angus to determine if they AMCarriers or AMFree. |
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